National Geographic’s new three-part documentary series, Killer Lies: Chasing a True Crime Con Man, will premiere tonight and starts streaming tomorrow on Hulu. A continuation of Lauren Collins’ reporting for The New Yorker, the series explores the story of Stéphane Bourgoin, a French true-crime expert whose fans exposed him for his own wrongdoings. Ahead of the premiere, I had the opportunity to speak with Lauren Collins about continuing her coverage, this time on camera, and director Ben Selkow about why this story was perfect for a documentary series.
(James Adolphus/National Geographic/Ben Selkow)
Alex: Lauren, this started as a feature for The New Yorker. At what point did it become obvious that this was a documentary series in addition to a written piece?
Lauren Collins: It was never obvious that it would become a series because I had never made a documentary series before. But I knew all along that I was drawn to this story because it was so multi-layered. This true crime story about true crime was not only incredibly twisty and turny on the surface but there was also this whole second meta-level. As a writer, I thought this was the perfect opportunity to explore complex, tricky, and compelling questions about the industry, the genre, storytelling, and true crime. For me, all the elements were there. But I'll let Ben speak to the more industry side of it.
Ben Selkow: The article came out in 2022. I read it as an avid New Yorker fan, and I thought, "Oh man, this would be an amazing project if you could get Lauren and all the people orbiting this story." But I was on another project and still dealing with COVID-related production delays, so it wasn't happening then. Then, in 2023, when The New Yorker and Left/Right Productions joined forces and found partners in Nat Geo, Hulu, and Disney to produce a project around it, I had the opportunity. When I was called in, I was ecstatic. I remembered the story and went hard into the interview process because I was so committed. I knew it would be hard to make, but also amazing, because we had huge characters, and if you got access to them, you had the foundation of a great doc series. There was also the opportunity to, as Lauren mentioned, explore these meta layers, which allowed for something smart and entertaining because we had the spine of an incredible con that had endured for years and happened to arc with the rise of true crime in popular culture. Very rarely do you get to marry a larger, meta idea with a great, character-driven story with access, so this felt like a unique opportunity.
Lauren Collins: And just as a kind of quantitative measure, I knew there was tremendous enthusiasm for this story. It was one of The New Yorker's top five most-read stories of 2022. I could feel the excitement, enthusiasm, and engagement around it, and it's been great to work with this incredible team, taking the story even further.
Alex: Lauren, you got to sit down face-to-face with Stéphane Bourgoin. Did you talk to him when you were doing the article?
Lauren Collins: Yes. I spent a number of months on this article, longer than I'd like to admit. I had reached out to him at the beginning of my reporting. He answered immediately but asked what I was looking to do. As soon as I said I wanted to write a big story about his life and career, he asked the pointed question of whether I was going to write about his unmasking by the Fourth Eye. He stopped responding. I had spent months reporting, and as I was writing, I thought I had to go the extra mile to give him an opportunity to speak because it's so personal. I didn't want to go to press without making sure I had tried everything. I managed to figure out where he lived and decided to show up, just to give him one last chance to talk. I took a train and then a taxi to a house I thought was his, but no one was home. I called him and said, "I think I'm standing on your doorstep," but he said, "That's not actually my doorstep." He told me where he really lived and said if I could be there in 15 minutes, he'd talk to me. I got another taxi and sped over there. I had met him once, but it wasn't incredibly fruitful. I left with more questions than answers, so we knew there was more conversation to be had in making the series.
Ben Selkow: I've been to his place, too, but with a crew. I'm 6'2", 245 pounds; Lauren is much more petite. I was on edge, nervous, given all the reputational stuff. So, Lauren's courage to show up and give him the right of response is very admirable. Lauren might brush it off as just doing what you do as a reporter, but I was super impressed. Fortunately, it left more questions open, which allowed us to continue making the documentary series. It wasn't just retelling the story; it was building on that reporting and exploring new dimensions. The story catches up to 2022 and continues to process events in real time, up to the end. I'm grateful there was a door open to make a project around it, and we were able to go much further with our team.
Lauren Collins: Yes, with Ben and our team, we were able to uncover things I couldn't on my own. For example, the woman in the picture he always showed around, supposedly his murdered wife – I couldn't get to the bottom of that. But with Ben and our team, we found out who she was. There were so many dimensions to this story. While I had amazing resources from The New Yorker, I was still just one person with limited time. We were able to take things much further together.
(National Geographic/Ben Selkow)
Alex: One of my favorite things about the narrative is how it turns the camera around on the viewer. Our fascination with true crime created opportunities for opportunists like Stéphane Bourgoin to do what he did. Aja Raden's interviews really capture the voice of "shame on everyone." Why was it important for that to be part of the series?
Lauren Collins: I don't think it's about shaming everyone, but more about self-reflection for everyone. Thank you for picking up on that because it was important to us that this story be examined from all angles, including our own role as storytellers. We didn't want to exclude ourselves or the audience from this critical examination of the genre, industry, and storytelling. Ben and I had many spirited conversations about this. It's a dialogue that hasn't stopped.
Ben Selkow: Aja Raden is a great voice in this. I saw her in another documentary talking about a different specialty, and then she came out with a new book about lying. To Lauren's point, she's not shaming us; she's asking for honesty from everyone – audience members, filmmakers, storytellers, cons, and scammers. She's saying, "Let's be honest about what roles we're playing." She enjoys this provocative role, pushing for honesty and acknowledgment of our participation. This was important to us as filmmakers, to acknowledge our role and be accountable. Respecting the audience means being transparent about our process. We didn't want to point fingers at the audience as if they're solely responsible for the rise of true crime by consuming content uncritically. We consume it, too; we make it, too. We have to acknowledge our role in all of this and that respect for the audience was key.
Alex: Thank you both so much, and congrats again on the launch of Killer Lies: Chasing a True Crime Con Man.
Killer Lies: Chasing a True Crime Con Man airs tonight at 8/7c on Nat Geo, and streams tomorrow on Hulu.