The Stanford Prison Experiment is a legendary psychological study that is rooted in controversy. In National Geographic’s new three-part documentary series, The Stanford Prison Experiment: Unlocking the Truth, viewers get a multi-perspective look at the project from the people closest to it – the professor who set it all up, and the students who participated. Ahead of the November 13th broadcast premiere, I had the ability to speak with director/executive producer Juliette Eisner and participants Dave Eshleman (“guard”) and Clay Ramsay (“prisoner”). What follows is an amalgamated interview.
(National Geographic)
Alex: The original experiment was very much a psychological case study—or at least that’s what everyone thought they were participating in. Juliette, you follow that format in the way the episodes are structured. Could you talk about your approach to keeping the audience in the dark until the next episode?
Juliette Eisner: We had a lot of conversations about the structure, especially with our editors, Mohamed El Manasterly and Steph Kelly. We landed on a format that mirrored our own journey with this story. We started with what we thought we knew, and then, as I discovered new documents and spoke to participants, we realized there was so much more. Structuring it as "Here’s what you think you know—wait, there’s more" felt the most natural, entertaining, and gave us room for twists. By the third episode, Dr. Zimbardo gets to defend himself, and there are other fun elements that keep viewers engaged.
Alex: Clay and Dave, you both participated in the '70s, but the story’s reach has grown, with film adaptations and talk show appearances. Did being part of this series make you feel like you were part of the conversation again?
Clay Ramsay: Actually, neither of us has really been “out.” We’ve both had chances to share our perspectives over the years. Zimbardo drove the story with extraordinary skill, presenting it in a way that didn’t always respect the truth.
Dave Eshleman: Absolutely. Zimbardo was a great storyteller—“Don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story,” as they say. He wanted to present me as this “evil guard” figure, even though he directed many of my actions. I even started getting hate mail, with people posting horrible things on my business Facebook page. Right after the experiment, he came over and congratulated me, saying I’d done a fantastic job. So, he knew he had good material for his story, but he carried it to the end without admitting the truth.
Alex: Juliette, you managed to get Dr. Zimbardo on camera. Not all the questions were answered, but he’s a part of this story. Given that he recently passed, could you talk about the timeline of when you captured that interview?
Juliette Eisner: Yes, Dr. Zimbardo passed away just a few weeks ago, and the timing is so surreal with the show’s release. We interviewed him back in 2020. He invited us into his home for two days, and we did a six-hour interview. He was incredibly charming, smart, and always defended his experiment, which led to fascinating discussions. I wish I’d done it later in the process because I have so many more questions now. I think we answered a lot of questions, but some will always remain. That ambiguity is part of what makes this series compelling—I hope viewers can draw their own conclusions.
Alex: Clay and Dave, you mentioned struggling to get your version of the story out there. With National Geographic’s reputation, did you feel more optimistic about this project?
Clay Ramsay: I’ve been pleased with Nat Geo throughout. Juliette was actually trying to make this before Nat Geo came on board. She started working on it around March or April 2020, and she came to my home to interview me that December. She didn’t have great partners until Nat Geo stepped in, and I’m very grateful for that.
Dave Eshleman: Like Clay, I didn’t know Nat Geo was involved until later, but I’m thrilled they were. I’ve loved National Geographic since I was a kid, reading issues that went back to the 1930s. I’m very happy with how it turned out.
Juliette Eisner: Dr. Zimbardo often said he filmed a lot of the experiment, but in reality, only six hours out of six days were filmed. As much as I searched, I don’t think there’s any hidden tape beyond those six hours. We also listened to countless hours of audio, but it became clear we’d need to supplement the original archival footage with visuals of our own.
Alex: Juliette, can you talk about the experience of recreating the location of the Stanford Prison Experiment on a soundstage and inviting participants back?
Juliette Eisner: The participants who visited the set were incredibly grateful to relive something that had previously only existed in memory. They had closure, they could discuss the experience with others who went through it, and it brought out new insights and emotions none of us anticipated. I’m so grateful National Geographic supported us in making this happen.
Alex: Clay and Dave, what was that set visit like for you? And was that experience?
Dave Eshleman: It looked exactly like I remember it. I wouldn’t say it was healing, as I don’t feel I needed that, but it was… a trip. Seeing the actors they hired, including the one playing me, was fun.
Clay Ramsay: There were four others of us there, too—two other guards and two other prisoners… One guard had felt guilty for decades, even though he only followed Dave’s instructions once to bang on a door. He and I worked that out, and it was nice to talk through it with him.
Alex: I know the series got to screen the first two episodes at Tribeca earlier this year. What was that experience of sharing the first two episodes with an audience like?
Juliette Eisner: I so wish we could have screened the third episode. But I was glad to hear from the audience that everyone really wanted to know what happened next. So it was both frustrating and great, because at least it felt like we did a good enough job that people want to tune in for the final episode.
Dave Eshleman: It was a kick, really! What a treat. I’ve got a great picture hanging on my refrigerator now—my wife and I on the red carpet at Tribeca. We got to show that off to our friends, of course. They put us up in a nice hotel, gave us limousine rides around the city. So, yeah, it was great. I’m ready to do it again!
Clay Ramsay: I was given a link to watch the first two episodes they screened at Tribeca in advance. Juliette sent me the links, and she had a little panic attack, like, “Make sure you watch the second episode right after the first one, or you might want to throw something at me!” because the perspective shifts so much over the three episodes. I decided to save it, though, to see it on a big screen, and I loved it. I had a very strong positive impression seeing it like that.
The Stanford Prison Experiment: Unlocking the Truth premieres Wednesday, November 13th, at 8/7c on Nat Geo, and starts streaming Thursday, November 14th, on Disney+ and Hulu.